In attendance: John Cronin, Tina Hein, Ben Sparrell, Travis Ahern

John advises we are going to start with Agenda Item 6A – appointment of Police Officer James Ray – Officer Ray was in attendance and Chief Stone is on Zoom –

Chief apologizes for not being in person – household has flu, and he has no power and appreciates the opportunity to attend thanks to the hybrid model. We have had two recent appointments of officers since spring town meeting, this is the third. James grew up in Franklin and he’s been with the department since 2013 as a dispatcher and in 2014 joined the auxiliary and has donated hundreds of hours. He is currently Captain of that unit. He recently attended the academy in Foxboro and is due to be certified. The background check is complete, and Franklin PD has voiced their support of him.  Without hesitation, we support him as next full-time appointment to the Holliston PD.

Officer Ray — thank you for this opportunity, it is something I’ve wanted to do since I was a teenager. I’ve always been interested in police work including participating in ride-alongs and I’m looking forward to serving.

Ben: Thank you for stepping up and appreciate all the work you have done for Holliston to date.

Tina: The Holliston PD has very strong leadership and when we hear the accolades being given to you they mean a lot. Is there some area of community policing where you would like to be more involved?

Officer Ray – Celebrate Holliston is something I’ve done for six or seven years as part of the auxiliary force, and this has been a lot of fun and I’d like to be able to continue with the planning process of this event. 

John: It seems like we have appointed a lot of new officers in the last couple of years. Numerically is that something you want to call out. We’ve had a lot of turnover and how the younger force is fitting in.

Chief: This is part of a deliberate choice on our part. In a recent meeting of area Chief’s no chief in the area has a full staff, we now have a full 28 officers (full staff). We are lucky to have been able to have the opportunity to bring in new officers.  We are not just filling in numbers, our process takes a lot of time and effort, and we present candidates when we know they fit into the culture in Holliston.

John: Welcome, we appreciate your commitment to Holliston. We welcome people from all walks of life. Could you share some of your thoughts about dealing with people (from all walks of life) whether it’s pulling them over in the middle of the night, or interacting with people in distress. Where does this experience come from?

Officer James Ray: From my younger years doing drive-a longs in Franklin, and since being in Holliston on the Auxiliary force I was mentored by Sgt. Rutkus and has helped guide me in how do things here in Holliston, specifically community policing. My plan is continuing to do that and being that smiling face. After years of helping people by phone, I’m looking forward to interacting with people one-on-one recognizing that in some cases, they need us because it is one of the worse days of their lives.

John: For those on Zoom: the room is filled with James’ family and Holliston law enforcement officers are in the hallway.  At this point I’ll entertain a motion.

Ben made the motion and Tina seconded – unanimous.

Skipping to: Update on Downtown Sewer Feasibility for Select Board and Board of Health (Joint Discussion)

Jay Leary in attendance and board member Josh Mann and Scott Moles are on Zoom. Motion made to bring the Board of Health meeting to order.

Holliston has been engaged for approximately two years to bring a sewer project into the downtown area. Travis and facilities manager James Keats (also present) have been involved in these ongoing engagements. The only takeaway that I’m looking at tonight is that there is going to be open lines of communication so that the citizens of Holliston know what is always going on. Communication must be a two-way street.

If your board has any questions or thoughts about the project, we would like to hear them. Overall, the board has been pleased with the information that was provided by Mr. Keats. We need to get over the “hump” of some of the approvals regarding size and output of the plant.

Jay: The challenges we see on our end are primarily DEP and not ours specifically. We expected certain information in September and we’re still waiting for the limits and my only other concern is we have had some challenges with compliance, and we need to make sure that we remain in compliance, and we need to make sure that going forward we have this under control.

Josh: Lacking a concrete time frame is the most challenging issue and it puts us in a difficult position when people come regarding septic changes.

James – the next big hurdle is getting DEP to issue a discharge permit. Our current capacity is 32,000 gal per day, and we need to be at least at 50 or higher to do this. We are still pending perk testing and other testing for analysis for the discharge capacity to be completed. We hope to have that information before the spring.

Jay: fortunately, the weather is helping us and we may be able to get those numbers sooner. To Josh’s point, a landowner has expressed concerns about if he could do with alternative sewage treatment (porta-potty) at his place with the idea that sewers might be down the line. We know this won’t fly and he understood that, but it would be helpful to be able to help him narrow down the completion date. The problem has not traditionally been a Board of Health issue, but a numbers issue (how many people using the system) and is there going to be a method of buying in or out (betterment charges). We know that you’ve been working on outside funding versus taxpayer funding so that could help with that concern.

Scott: no particular concerns but scheduling is a concern and being able to provide answers to the business owners is critical regarding testing and scheduling. We need to be clear on those schedules when it comes to projects we need to make sure that we have a manner of keeping the facilities in compliance.  Guidelines will be set up as the project gets approved and hopefully we’ll get the capacity we propose.

John: this is the first board meeting, and we’d like to keep an open line between the Select Board and the Board of Health. Jay agrees that having an early jump and maintaining communication is important.

Ben: My question is are there any changes we need to make regarding by-laws and rules regarding the board of health? There is some necessity to work with the planning board, but we do not want to find ourselves running into walls.

Jay: There is going to be formation of a sewer district and that may be something we have to start thinking about. Unlike your typical sewer system, we are going to be a more hybrid system and there will be challenges regarding rights-of-way and other issues.  Asks Scott if there is other systems that may be similar?  We need to look at that and see if we might run into challenges.

Tina: Other communities have similar systems.

James: the schools currently run this way.

Jay: Yes, but we don’t officially have a sewer district, we’re going to be incorporating a lot of private landowners in this project and the sewer district will be taking over the maintenance of private landowners’ facilities and there may be things we need to think about and work out.

James: yes, we are aware of these issues, and discussions have been ongoing (regarding the pipes which will be in some cases on private land) there will be 2” pipes on several properties which will require easements.

Jay: What happens when someone needs a new septic system – is the expectation that the town will be responsible for caring for their replacement. Everything hinges on Title V which governs everything around sewers and septic. We will start looking at the changes we might need to make.

Travis: in sewer district areas they will take some responsibility for who takes care of what and the Board of Health will govern issues like grease traps, and other matters. That could become much larger requirements for the Board of Health so there will be some changes in how we do things now.

Ben: I’m just trying to think about things we may need to consider while we have time to think about them and do not get caught at the last minute realizing we have a problem with an existing bylaw or statute that we are running up against and trying to fix it after the fact. We need to take advantage of the luxury of time.

John: that wraps it for this particular dialogue, and we welcome it and we hope everyone stays in touch and thank you for coming in.

Motion to adjourn the Board of Health meeting was made and passed.

Board Discussion of Updated Flag Policy in Relation to SJC Court case (Shurtleff v. Boston)   (editors note: if anyone is interested in reviewing the 49 page decision in Shurtleff v. City of Boston, 596 U.S. ___ (2022), the link is here)

John described the current city policy and the violation that was charged. Various communities have been pulling together policies that fit their needs and we have asked for guidance that we should be looking at, specifically pitfalls and legal guardrails that we need to be mindful of.

Jay Tillerman: My advice depends on your threshold for chaos! You can design this as you want. It’s important to keep in mind, this does not only impact the flags which fly in front of Town Hall, but includes school properties, playing fields, etc. Anyplace flags are flying. Are we a full public forum or are we limited to government speech. Are you opening yourself up for comments. In general, it’s good to open yourself up for comments, but it’s important to remember you might always like what you are hearing.  Our concern is regarding flags which we might find less wholesome (racist, explicit, etc.) while we can still control for hate speech, there is a real limit to what we can control on flag poles.

We start with the strongest side, I want you to have as much control of the resources as possible. No application process, you can fly whatever flag you want, then you have created a new kind of forum. As long as it’s your choice, but if you do that and someone says hey we like those three flags you are flying, and we’d like to add the Town of Hopkinton flag. Unfortunately, this may sound ridiculous but keep in mind, some towns have agreed to display pride flags, and this has led to anti-pride groups wanting to fly a flag. You don’t have to agree to fly them if YOU make the decision about what flags you should fly without community input.

If you don’t open a community forum (ie someone is allowed to petition the board to fly a specific flag) then you are free to make that decision. As soon as you open that door however, you run into issues of what you can/should/might want to fly.

Because of public speech then the flagpole is considered a forum for public speech. If you keep it as government speech, then you avoid the problem of opening it up to anything you do not want flying there.

John: You’re saying that in 2023 the town develops a policy that the three of us agree on, then in future Select Boards can change the policy. This is why you can avoid a by-law because that way the policy is flexible.

Jay: some towns have taken the “we’ll accept anything” approach and they have run into issues with this because they have no limits.

John: So is the absence of something as a policy an explicit agreement that we will accept anything?

Jay: No as long as what you do follows the Shurtleff case. As a marker for your employees and for the board, it’s helpful to have a policy in place. If someone challenges the policy, then you can say this is our policy. That way if someone challenges you, you can say this is our policy here’s the minutes, here is the policy.

Tina: you are defining government speech as the choice a board decides?

Jay: that is correct. Some of the typical ones that have created issues include the flying of “don’t tread on me flags” at cemeteries. Since the town made that decision on their own, it was not “debatable”.

Ben: While government speech is something we do all the time, what happens if someone decides AFTER someone suggests it and we fly that flag because we think it’s a good idea.

Jay: That could be a problem for example if an email is discovered to Ben that says “hey think about this flag in front of the town hall” and you ultimately fly it, then you are opening the door to lawsuits when you refuse to act on a similar email from someone from something you do not agree with. You have to look at each fact.

Ben: I think it should be government speech, but if we are not immune from influence/context in our personal lives and contacts. I am grappling with the idea that we are not opening ourselves up to something.

Jay: Nothing prevents anyone from saying we know this is government speech, but please consider honoring this veteran’s group. This is an educational issue. This doesn’t prevent you from doing this. We had an issue in another town where there was a social media account and they allowed commenting and started getting some pretty ugly comments and wanted to shut it off. We had to have a meeting, make a decision, write a policy and agree to shut off commenting.

You can correct it after the fact by reversing course but it may be after some inconvenience, the fact that there is/was a policy in place will protect you to some degree.

Ben: Hypothetically: value statement: we espouse this, that – what’s important to us as a community – and created an application process. Turning down an applicant that is against what is in our value statement — is that something that could be there or do we lose that latitude.

Jay: you’re accountable to the citizens (at the ballot box) and you can put that into your formal speech (flag or otherwise). They can remedy that by voting.

John: In the event that a future board is sitting on our policy, and they want to make an exception for a flag not covered in the policy. Can they amend the policy for a short period (say 30 days)?

Jay: So your flags of choice are not in the policy. You won’t name specific flags, because the minute you modify for one group, then you’ve changed to a public speech. If you change your policy based on a request you don’t’ want to make an exception, you want to change the policy overall.

John: can a flag policy be building specific? Can we make specific policies that say flags of X design at this building, Y design at this facility, etc?

Jay: As long as it is your detail, and you can open ONE to public speech but again you open yourself up. For example, you can state that at Town Hall, the US flag, Commonwealth of MA flag, and Holliston flag can fly. One playing fields you can fly, cemeteries can fly, schools, library, etc.

John: Would our flag policy cover the schools and other buildings?

Jay: that depends on who has the ultimate control over the grounds. The schools may control the buildings but may not control the land around the building.

Tina: Our policy can state that the schools control their own policy.

Jay: that would depend again on who controls the grounds at the school. In some cases, the school may have full control of the grounds, or the recreation department may control the playing fields.

Tina: Do I understand correctly that if we have no policy then we have to follow the SJC decision?

Jay: The policy would be to address a similar solution to the case. If you have no policy, then you have to follow that placement. If you have a policy then you have an extra layer of protection.

John offered public comment – no takers.

John asked Ben how he thought we should proceed. Travis has offered a few suggestions based on research he’s done on how other areas are handling this matter.

Travis: there are many ways to accomplish this and we can work towards consistency but again as Jay pointed out the schools are independently going to make their decisions. We get requests and we try to accommodate as best we can.

Ben: Middleton policy is a good policy. It’s broad and simple and I think that will be the best way to start until we can fine tune it and see what our future needs may be.

Tina: I like the idea of the policy being clear. I can see the benefit in the policy being more specific by location.

Jay: the basic is that government speech. The exception would probably be cemeteries. There is an option for taking votes on other locations where you may want to fly flags. An overarching policy and secondary can change as often as you like.

Tina: Concern as to whether the policy poses any hindrance to our goal of incorporating diversity, inclusion, and equity. My ultimate goal is to make sure the policy is not a hindrance to these goals and I’m not sure how we can accomplish this.

Jay: that would be up to the three of you, and we may all have nuanced views of what we consider diverse, equitable, and inclusive. It is disappointing to me since I’ve done a lot of free speech work, but you must look at the greater good so that the message that is displayed is one the municipality can be proud of.

John: Ben favors the Middleton policy. Tina: I favor the Burlington one.

Jay: Burlington is a bit outdated to be clear.  (Tina: Have no issues with the Middleton one). There may be some portions on the Burlington one which could put us in the firing line.

John: Travis if the board is interested in going with the Middleton policy is that something you could begin to customize for Holliston so it can become a working copy to come through?

Travis: Yes.

Ben: We need to make sure that we are careful that during the discussion we are specific about what our expectations are and what control we have over what flag poles.

John: The banner on Washington Street is event driven so it won’t create a problem.

Tina: One thing in the Burlington policy which I found useful — which should incldue the towns sentiment specifically the DEI inclusion.

Public Comment

Laurie Markoff – Marked Tree Road resident. I want to thank the Select Board for considering the strategic plan for DEI when making decision about flags. It makes me happy!

Ben: Repeat of Marshall Street and Parking bans. (Marshall Street closed on 12/24) Happy Holidays and be safe.

Tina: We’ve been wrapping up fast and my daughter is here hoping that we wrap up fast again so she can get Christmas gifts!

John: Thank the Holliston DPW and they did an amazing job keeping up with the work from the storm.

This board received word that Jackie Dellicker had passed away and I knew her better than I knew Henry Dellicker due to her work in the town. We’d like to take a brief moment of silence. Captain Gallerani also passed away and I was remiss to not recognize that last week. Please remember them and their families this holiday season.

Warrants

Motion to approve warrant, Tina seconded, motion passed.

Comments from the Town Administrator

Summary of Open Procurement Items and Recent Results – all good results for Holliston and have been led by James and we should take time to go through them in the interest of time, it won’t be tonight!

Engaged the housing production plan with the MBTA and our grant application has gone in. Route 16 corridor improvements and we’ve indicated we’d be willing to go in jointly with Sherborn.

Fair share funding is approved, and we’ll be getting a one-time adjustment.

Board Business

Meeting Minutes November 6, 2023 – Motion made by Ben, seconded by Tina, passed.

Donation to Senior Center from Edmund Mullin Jr. in memory of Edwina Kirby $100 – Motion made by Ben and 2^nd by Tina, passed.

Authorization of SolSystems transfer to Onyx documents related to solar installation at capped landfill on Marshall Street – Ben made a motion, Tina seconded, passed.

Mindfulness that as we run into January it is evaluation time and we should be having conversations (electronically).

Happy Holidays Holliston, there will be no meeting next week.